Private industry and the government (with the help of Madison Ave, Hollywood and the MSM) have been peddling feminist Ms Information for years and it seems women bought it hook line and sinker.

Feminists selling their latest books portrayed men as monsters and traditional long term heterosexual relationships as oppression. Women rushed out to buy these books and to follow their advice.

Advice gurus like Dr Phil and Oprah Winfrey dominate the airwaves, telling women how to handle relationships. Like Oprah has any personal experience of successful heterosexual relationships!! And as if Dr Phil knows anything about how real men think . . .

Ads portraying men as idiots or a**holes are aimed at persuading women to buy overpriced consumer garbage. And these ads work.

Government encouraged women to enter the workforce in large numbers because this increased the tax base and made the GDP seem bigger. Gloria Steinem worked for the CIA, which funded Ms Magazine. Women went for Ms Steinem’s views on life.

Private industry encouraged women to go to work outside the home so they could have two workers for the price of one from every family. Women agreed this was a great idea.

In other words, feminists of various hues have encouraged women to hate on their menfolk, abandon their families and work for strangers for cheap. Men who had reservations were demonized as sexist pigs.

The question is, were these traditional men so wrong?
Trevor,

Thanks for your answer and for confusing me with Eoghan, which I take as a high compliment.

"You are feeling the pinch of losing some power as a white heterosexual man and no-one wants to remove all your power."

That old line surely has to be running out of steam by now, Trevor?

Do you really believe that anybody who has a problem with feminism is afraid of losing their "power"?

What power do you think I have? I work for a female boss and have had nothing but female educators most of the way. My wife can kick me out of our home whenever she feels like calling a lawyer, in which case I will be lucky to see my own children every other weekend.

You are living in an era that hasn’t existed for decades!
"Oprah might not be an expert on relationships but she isn’t a lesbian, if that’s what you’re implying. I guess a lot of men want women to do nothing but be house wives so they can continue to claim that men contributed far more to society and technology than women did. Or women never invented anything. Or say things like "Without men women would still be living in caves." They prefer to think this is because women have no abilities, not because they spent most of their time being house wives."

Green,

I didn’t say Oprah is a lesbian. I just said that she has no personal experience of healthy long term heterosexual relationships and is in no position to give millions of women advice on the topic.

And for the record, I am not advocating a return to the past. I don’t think it is possible, partly because fewer young men want to be financially responsible for any woman for the rest of their lives.

I accept that things have changed. I’m just wondering how we got here.
"Feminism started because women were being mistreated. Men were allowed to beat their wives because the women were the men’s "property" and men could do what they wanted with them."

Not quite. That’s what the movement for women’s rights was about. Feminism is another matter entirely.
Thanks, Doodlebug. I didn’t actually know that and even I am shocked, which is sad as I am quite cynical already.
"And as far as Trevor living in another era: YOU are the one that asked the question and started griping about women. You get what you pay for, dude."

Rachel B, I am having difficulty understanding your argument. I asked about feminism. Trevor answered (as he usually does) by saying the only reason a man could have a problem with feminism is that he fears losing all that "white heterosexual male power" or whatever. My counterpoint was that I have no power to lose.

And your argument is what? Asking a question about feminism proves that I am a powerful white heteorsexual male after all? Or calling feminism into question proves that I live in the same era as Trevor?

Please enlighten me further.
"And as far as Trevor living in another era: YOU are the one that asked the question and started griping about women. You get what you pay for, dude."

Rachel B, I am having difficulty understanding your argument. I asked about feminism. Trevor answered (as he usually does) by saying the only reason a man could have a problem with feminism is that he fears losing all that "white heterosexual male power" or whatever. My counterpoint was that I have no power to lose.

And your argument is what? Asking a question about feminism proves that I am a powerful white heteorsexual male after all? Or calling feminism into question proves that I live in the same era as Trevor?

Please enlighten me further.
"You said:
>>>>>>>> "Private industry and the government (with the help of Madison Ave, Hollywood and the MSM) have been peddling feminist Ms Information for years and it seems women bought it hook line and sinker" <<<<<<<<

I say:
Untrue: This is a paranoid notion. It is impossible for all the individual sectors to have colluded against you in this way. Society is changing and it is organic."

Trevor, I am not saying anybody colluded against me personally. That’s a little silly. Do you deny that the government, private industry etc. supported the movement for their own reasons? If not, what is your argument?
"You said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Advice gurus like Dr Phil and Oprah Winfrey dominate the airwaves, telling women how to handle relationships. Like Oprah has any personal experience of successful heterosexual relationships!! And as if Dr Phil knows anything about how real men think . . ."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I say:
Untrue:
The advent of quick-fix talk TV is indicative of what ails society in that it is going through change and change hurts. Some talk TV gurus advocate change and some are traditional and most are entertainment fodder and not indicative of anything that important. Oprah and Dr Phil and Judge Judy admit they are entertainment TV and the consumer dictates what is listend to – not the TalkTV host."

But are you denying that women act on advice from Oprah and Dr Phil every day? Or that the reason for their popularity is that millions of women tune in? I don’t really get your point here.
"You said
>>>>>>>> "Feminists selling their latest books portrayed men as monsters and traditional long term heterosexual relationships as oppression. Women rushed out to buy these books and to follow their advice" <<<<<<<<<<

I say:
Untrue:
The heterosexual white anglo saxon male stranglehold on society had to be dismantled in the same way whites had to be stopped from enslaving blacks. It is no different."

Trevor, Now it’s "heterosexual white anglo saxon male" that were the bad guys? I guess I’m OK since I’m not Anglo Saxon. Whew! Lucky for me I don’t fall on the wrong side of your cliched, oversimplified morality play.
"You said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"In other words, feminists of various hues have encouraged women to hate on their menfolk, abandon their families and work for strangers for cheap. Men who had reservations were demonized as sexist pigs"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Untrue:
I say:
This is not the case: It is obvious there was an imbalance of power between genders and race and people over different cultures throughout the centuries and society is redressing that now as we speak."

Trevor, are you really saying it is "untrue" that traditonal men were demonized as "sexist pigs," that feminists of various hues have encouraged women to hate on their menfolk, abandon their families and work for strangers for cheap?"

Based on what evidence?
"thank you trevor – very good."

Trevor done good. Give him a bone.

A lot of scary stuff about feminism is an open secret. For example, the fact that the UN are promoting the rabidly anti-male law in India that can have a man imprisoned for a year for insulting any female relative: "The Lawyers Collective, one of the groups that led the campaign [to create the 2006 domestic violence laws] will now use a grant by the UN Trust Fund to End Violence against Women to help the Indian legal system adjust the ways it handles domestic abuse cases" http://www.unifem.org/gender_issues/voices_from_the_field/story.php?StoryID=543
This is the law they are promoting http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article614140.ece
The UN are also set to begin promoting the sexist VAWA in 20 countries too.

But the global conspiracy gets worse: soap operas are designed by psychologists in the US to produce feminist behaviour in viewers in India!! Here is a report on how effective this propaganda has been

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119330571/abstract?

In other words, the US and UN are working in India covertly promoting feminism through the TV and creating radical feminist laws there too. Wtf??? If I was an Indian guy I would be outraged, not only because of the promotion of sexism but because a foreign government was interfering with my country.

Its no secret that feminism has got backing in very high places. But I have to stop and wonder: how the hell did they get so well connected in such a short space of time??

Edit
Broken link fixed now.


20 Comments

  1. Boodle
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Yup and nope :)References :

  2. Boodle
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Yup and nope :)References :

  3. Jimmy
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    I would have to agree that I don’t particularly find the commercialization of feminist philosophies very productive. It definitely gives people pause to take it seriously. I have also seen a number of books that I would consider absolute nonsense published by prominent feminist thinkers just as a way for them and their publishers to make a quick buck because they know many will rush to buy those books by virtue of the author’s name recognition.References :

  4. Trevor
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    I think you are coming over as someone who is convinced of the New World Order Conspiracy and I disagree with almost everything you say.

    You said:
    >>>>>>>> "Private industry and the government (with the help of Madison Ave, Hollywood and the MSM) have been peddling feminist Ms Information for years and it seems women bought it hook line and sinker" <<<<<<<<

    I say:
    Untrue: This is a paranoid notion. It is impossible for all the individual sectors to have colluded against you in this way. Society is changing and it is organic.

    You said
    >>>>>>>> "Feminists selling their latest books portrayed men as monsters and traditional long term heterosexual relationships as oppression. Women rushed out to buy these books and to follow their advice" <<<<<<<<<<

    I say:
    Untrue:
    The heterosexual white anglo saxon male stranglehold on society had to be dismantled in the same way whites had to be stopped from enslaving blacks. It is no different.

    You said:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Advice gurus like Dr Phil and Oprah Winfrey dominate the airwaves, telling women how to handle relationships. Like Oprah has any personal experience of successful heterosexual relationships!! And as if Dr Phil knows anything about how real men think . . ."
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    I say:
    Untrue:
    The advent of quick-fix talk TV is indicative of what ails society in that it is going through change and change hurts. Some talk TV gurus advocate change and some are traditional and most are entertainment fodder and not indicative of anything that important. Oprah and Dr Phil and Judge Judy admit they are entertainment TV and the consumer dictates what is listend to – not the TalkTV host.

    You said:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    "In other words, feminists of various hues have encouraged women to hate on their menfolk, abandon their families and work for strangers for cheap. Men who had reservations were demonized as sexist pigs"
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Untrue:
    I say:
    This is not the case: It is obvious there was an imbalance of power between genders and race and people over different cultures throughout the centuries and society is redressing that now as we speak.

    You are feeling the pinch of losing some power as a white heterosexual man and no-one wants to remove all your power:

    Equality is what you will experience in the future and it hurts – losing your say in all things – when having your say as final *in all things* was wrong in the first place.References :

  5. Jimmy
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    I would have to agree that I don’t particularly find the commercialization of feminist philosophies very productive. It definitely gives people pause to take it seriously. I have also seen a number of books that I would consider absolute nonsense published by prominent feminist thinkers just as a way for them and their publishers to make a quick buck because they know many will rush to buy those books by virtue of the author’s name recognition.References :

  6. Trevor
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    I think you are coming over as someone who is convinced of the New World Order Conspiracy and I disagree with almost everything you say.

    You said:
    >>>>>>>> "Private industry and the government (with the help of Madison Ave, Hollywood and the MSM) have been peddling feminist Ms Information for years and it seems women bought it hook line and sinker" <<<<<<<<

    I say:
    Untrue: This is a paranoid notion. It is impossible for all the individual sectors to have colluded against you in this way. Society is changing and it is organic.

    You said
    >>>>>>>> "Feminists selling their latest books portrayed men as monsters and traditional long term heterosexual relationships as oppression. Women rushed out to buy these books and to follow their advice" <<<<<<<<<<

    I say:
    Untrue:
    The heterosexual white anglo saxon male stranglehold on society had to be dismantled in the same way whites had to be stopped from enslaving blacks. It is no different.

    You said:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Advice gurus like Dr Phil and Oprah Winfrey dominate the airwaves, telling women how to handle relationships. Like Oprah has any personal experience of successful heterosexual relationships!! And as if Dr Phil knows anything about how real men think . . ."
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    I say:
    Untrue:
    The advent of quick-fix talk TV is indicative of what ails society in that it is going through change and change hurts. Some talk TV gurus advocate change and some are traditional and most are entertainment fodder and not indicative of anything that important. Oprah and Dr Phil and Judge Judy admit they are entertainment TV and the consumer dictates what is listend to – not the TalkTV host.

    You said:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    "In other words, feminists of various hues have encouraged women to hate on their menfolk, abandon their families and work for strangers for cheap. Men who had reservations were demonized as sexist pigs"
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Untrue:
    I say:
    This is not the case: It is obvious there was an imbalance of power between genders and race and people over different cultures throughout the centuries and society is redressing that now as we speak.

    You are feeling the pinch of losing some power as a white heterosexual man and no-one wants to remove all your power:

    Equality is what you will experience in the future and it hurts – losing your say in all things – when having your say as final *in all things* was wrong in the first place.References :

  7. Rebecca W
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    It is even worse than the picture you painted. Yes good old Dr. Phil, who is divorced and Oprah, who is a misogynist giving relationship advice and all of the rest is correct. But all of this didn’t just tear tear women away from their and make them have unrealistic expectations but it has also resulted in women second guessing themselves, it has made them less instead of more. As the traditional roles break down, it is not just men who are losing their places in life and in society, it is women too. In the process of "getting it all" women are in reality getting lost in the confusion.

    There is nothing wrong with having traditional roles. It doesn’t mean that you can’t have more as well, but it gives you a strong guide to start with, then if women feel that they need to branch out from those roles fine. Women have been doing that for centuries. It is only in the last century that we have been forced to justify our desires to keep those roles. And as the feminist concepts get stronger, the more women become confused and unhappy.

    All this to say, no those traditional men weren’t wrong.References :

  8. green6es
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Oprah might not be an expert on relationships but she isn’t a lesbian, if that’s what you’re implying. I guess a lot of men want women to do nothing but be house wives so they can continue to claim that men contributed far more to society and technology than women did. Or women never invented anything. Or say things like "Without men women would still be living in caves." They prefer to think this is because women have no abilities, not because they spent most of their time being house wives.References :

  9. Rebecca W
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    It is even worse than the picture you painted. Yes good old Dr. Phil, who is divorced and Oprah, who is a misogynist giving relationship advice and all of the rest is correct. But all of this didn’t just tear tear women away from their and make them have unrealistic expectations but it has also resulted in women second guessing themselves, it has made them less instead of more. As the traditional roles break down, it is not just men who are losing their places in life and in society, it is women too. In the process of "getting it all" women are in reality getting lost in the confusion.

    There is nothing wrong with having traditional roles. It doesn’t mean that you can’t have more as well, but it gives you a strong guide to start with, then if women feel that they need to branch out from those roles fine. Women have been doing that for centuries. It is only in the last century that we have been forced to justify our desires to keep those roles. And as the feminist concepts get stronger, the more women become confused and unhappy.

    All this to say, no those traditional men weren’t wrong.References :

  10. Patriarch Verlch
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Feminism is just a tool of the class warfare experts. Powerful world government forces want to take over the world and create a police state. World government has to throw a monkey wrench into everything on earth. Feminism is one of their monkey wrenches.

    First they demonized men, then white men are the boogie man, the patriarchy, the list goes on. All the while telling women they are the victim, so that they will never end the cause to destroy their own nation.References :

  11. green6es
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Oprah might not be an expert on relationships but she isn’t a lesbian, if that’s what you’re implying. I guess a lot of men want women to do nothing but be house wives so they can continue to claim that men contributed far more to society and technology than women did. Or women never invented anything. Or say things like "Without men women would still be living in caves." They prefer to think this is because women have no abilities, not because they spent most of their time being house wives.References :

  12. Patriarch Verlch
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Feminism is just a tool of the class warfare experts. Powerful world government forces want to take over the world and create a police state. World government has to throw a monkey wrench into everything on earth. Feminism is one of their monkey wrenches.

    First they demonized men, then white men are the boogie man, the patriarchy, the list goes on. All the while telling women they are the victim, so that they will never end the cause to destroy their own nation.References :

  13. amleth
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    I thought the snake was the elephant in the room between naked Eve and Adam,and the colorful fruit that she held was,why Eve fell in the sin bringing it to her mouthReferences :

  14. amleth
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    I thought the snake was the elephant in the room between naked Eve and Adam,and the colorful fruit that she held was,why Eve fell in the sin bringing it to her mouthReferences :

  15. Rachel B
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Feminism started because women were being mistreated. Men were allowed to beat their wives because the women were the men’s "property" and men could do what they wanted with them. Men have always seen women the way you do and felt they had to "control" them to keep them in line. Women are the ones who have always been portrayed as monsters and we finally got sick of it and stood up for ourselves.

    And as far as Trevor living in another era: YOU are the one that asked the question and started griping about women. You get what you pay for, dude.References :

  16. Rachel B
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Feminism started because women were being mistreated. Men were allowed to beat their wives because the women were the men’s "property" and men could do what they wanted with them. Men have always seen women the way you do and felt they had to "control" them to keep them in line. Women are the ones who have always been portrayed as monsters and we finally got sick of it and stood up for ourselves.

    And as far as Trevor living in another era: YOU are the one that asked the question and started griping about women. You get what you pay for, dude.References :

  17. Doodlebugjim
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    A lot of scary stuff about feminism is an open secret. For example, the fact that the UN are promoting the rabidly anti-male law in India that can have a man imprisoned for a year for insulting any female relative: "The Lawyers Collective, one of the groups that led the campaign [to create the 2006 domestic violence laws] will now use a grant by the UN Trust Fund to End Violence against Women to help the Indian legal system adjust the ways it handles domestic abuse cases" http://www.unifem.org/gender_issues/voices_from_the_field/story.php?StoryID=543
    This is the law they are promoting http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article614140.ece
    The UN are also set to begin promoting the sexist VAWA in 20 countries too.

    But the global conspiracy gets worse: soap operas are designed by psychologists in the US to produce feminist behaviour in viewers in India!! Here is a report on how effective this propaganda has been
    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119330571/abstract?

    In other words, the US and UN are working in India covertly promoting feminism through the TV and creating radical feminist laws there too. Wtf??? If I was an Indian guy I would be outraged, not only because of the promotion of sexism but because a foreign government was interfering with my country.

    Its no secret that feminism has got backing in very high places. But I have to stop and wonder: how the hell did they get so well connected in such a short space of time??

    Edit
    Broken link fixed now.References :

  18. Doodlebugjim
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    A lot of scary stuff about feminism is an open secret. For example, the fact that the UN are promoting the rabidly anti-male law in India that can have a man imprisoned for a year for insulting any female relative: "The Lawyers Collective, one of the groups that led the campaign [to create the 2006 domestic violence laws] will now use a grant by the UN Trust Fund to End Violence against Women to help the Indian legal system adjust the ways it handles domestic abuse cases" http://www.unifem.org/gender_issues/voices_from_the_field/story.php?StoryID=543
    This is the law they are promoting http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article614140.ece
    The UN are also set to begin promoting the sexist VAWA in 20 countries too.

    But the global conspiracy gets worse: soap operas are designed by psychologists in the US to produce feminist behaviour in viewers in India!! Here is a report on how effective this propaganda has been
    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119330571/abstract?

    In other words, the US and UN are working in India covertly promoting feminism through the TV and creating radical feminist laws there too. Wtf??? If I was an Indian guy I would be outraged, not only because of the promotion of sexism but because a foreign government was interfering with my country.

    Its no secret that feminism has got backing in very high places. But I have to stop and wonder: how the hell did they get so well connected in such a short space of time??

    Edit
    Broken link fixed now.References :

  19. Dior
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    thank you trevor – very goodReferences :

  20. Dior
    Posted October 14, 2009 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    thank you trevor – very goodReferences :

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